Savvy is HQ Trivia + Wordle (feat. Scott Rogowsky) | E2245

Summary

This episode features two distinct startup stories about building version 2.0 after learning from failure. The first half focuses on Scott Rogowsky, the beloved host of HQ Trivia, who reflects on the app’s explosive rise from 50 players to over a million in months, and its subsequent collapse due to inexperienced leadership, technical instability, and a failure to iterate. Rogowsky reveals he was paid just $100/show and offered only 0.25% equity despite being the face of the brand. Now he is back as co-founder and CMO of Savvy, a live interactive word-puzzle game inspired by Wordle where the host plays against the audience — a mechanic never before seen in mobile gaming.

The second segment features Trevor Bennett, co-founder of Starfish Space, which builds autonomous spacecraft called “Otters” designed to dock with satellites to extend their life or safely de-orbit them. Starfish recently demonstrated its autonomous rendezvous capabilities with the Remora mission and secured a $52.5 million contract with the Space Development Agency. Bennett explains how Starfish takes a “software-first” approach, using cheap cameras paired with sophisticated autonomous navigation instead of expensive sensors. He describes an emerging “space-to-space” economy where companies service other space assets rather than ground-based customers, representing a fundamental shift in how the space industry operates.

Both interviews highlight the importance of experienced leadership, sustainable business models, and the transition from selling hype or hardware to providing consistent, high-value services.

Highlights

”They offered me 0.25% — a quarter point of the company”

“It was .25.” — Scott Rogowsky, 8:51

“A quarter point? 1/400th of the company? So dumb.” — Jason Calacanis, 8:53

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”If no one’s going to give me the job, I’m going to make it myself”

“I was applying to be a writer on talk shows, applying to be a producer, a segment producer, audience coordinator. I would do anything — I wanted to just be in that ecosystem, and I was getting rejected left and right. And I said, ‘You know what? Screw it. If no one’s going to give me the job, I’m going to make it myself.’ And I started Running Late.” — Scott Rogowsky, 3:57

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”Space can be its own economy — we’re a space-to-space business”

“One trend is that space can be its own economy and ecosystem. That no longer you just go to space to serve a ground-based customer, you can go to space to serve a space-based customer. Our business model is not serving a consumer watching the F1 race. We are servicing the satellite that broadcasts the F1 race. And so we’re a space-to-space business.” — Trevor Bennett, 43:58

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”We’re selling a service, not an orbiter”

“This contract is structured in a way that it’s about a service. And this is something that we have tried to profess in the industry and wanted to turn the ship of the industry. The industry was all about sell you an orbiter, and we’re selling a service. And SDA agreed.” — Trevor Bennett, 50:11

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”It’s Win Scott Rogowsky’s Money now”

“Jason, you mentioned Wordle? Guess what the show is. We’re doing our version of Wordle. It’s a live interactive version of Wordle, timed rounds, me versus you. If you score more points than me, if you get the word before I do, you win.” — Scott Rogowsky, 16:57

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Key Points

• HQ Trivia origin story (0:00) - Scott Rogowsky almost moved to LA before getting the call to audition for “this game show on the phone thing”
• Lightning in a bottle (2:29) - First-mover advantage combined with tried-and-true trivia format updated for mobile generation
• Running Late talk show (3:57) - Scott’s DIY talk show from 2011-2019 with 400 celebrity guests prepared him for HQ
• HQ Trivia talent dispute (5:43) - Vine founders had no media experience, paid Scott $100/show on 6-week contracts
• 0.25% equity offer (8:51) - HQ offered their star host a quarter point, which Jason calls “so dumb”
• Why HQ Trivia died (9:08) - Internal chaos, leadership problems, product stagnation, and co-founder death
• Savvy launch (16:41) - Grew from 1,200 to 2,100 users in three days, live every school night at 9 PM Eastern
• Host vs. audience mechanic (16:57) - Revolutionary game design where Scott competes against players in real-time Wordle
• Subscription model for gaming (20:57) - Jason suggests subscription is the future of Savvy’s monetization
• Starfish Space’s Otter spacecraft (24:04) - Autonomous “tow truck” for satellites: extends life or safely de-orbits them
• Remora mission success (33:17) - Proved autonomous rendezvous capability in space
• Software-first approach (33:17) - Uses cheap cameras with sophisticated autonomy instead of expensive sensors
• Space-to-space economy (43:58) - Emerging business model where space companies service other space assets
• $52.5M SDA contract (48:22) - Space Development Agency buys disposal services as a recurring service, not hardware
• Launch availability shift (47:14) - SpaceX Transporter missions create regular “bus schedules” to orbit

Mentions

Companies

• HQ Trivia (0:00) - Viral live trivia app from 2017-2020, rose and fell rapidly
• Savvy (16:41) - Scott Rogowsky’s new live interactive word-puzzle game
• Starfish Space (23:31) - Satellite servicing and debris removal startup
• Vine (6:12) - HQ Trivia was created by the founders of Vine
• Whatnot (15:17) - Live auction company that succeeded where Scott’s earlier venture didn’t
• Varda (43:58) - Space manufacturing company mentioned in context of expanding space economy
• SpaceX (46:45) - Referenced for driving down launch costs
• Blue Origin (46:10) - Making progress with New Glenn rocket

Products & Technologies

• Otter spacecraft (24:04) - Starfish’s autonomous satellite servicing vehicle
• Remora mission (33:17) - Starfish’s successful autonomous rendezvous demonstration
• Wordle (16:57) - Inspiration for Savvy’s live word-puzzle format

People

• Scott Rogowsky (0:00) - Former HQ Trivia host, now co-founder/CMO of Savvy
• Trevor Bennett (23:31) - Co-founder of Starfish Space

Surprising Quotes

“The initial deal, it was something like — I was like six-week contracts and they kept getting re-upped. And yeah, it broke down about a hundred bucks a show if you broke it down.” — Scott Rogowsky, 7:07

“You were the show. We tuned in because we liked you, Scott.” — Trevor Bennett, 8:55

“No longer you just go to space to serve a ground-based customer, you can go to space to serve a space-based customer.” — Trevor Bennett, 43:58

“We need ten times as many rockets going up per day and even then I think it wouldn’t be enough because I would like to go to space without having to sell one of my children.” — Alex Wilhelm, 48:02

“This contract is structured in a way that it’s about a service. The industry was all about sell you an orbiter, and we’re selling a service.” — Trevor Bennett, 50:11

Transcript

Alex Wilhelm: 0:00 We are talking to Scott Rogowsky of HQ Trivia fame. Jason, I don’t know if you were an HQ Trivia player, but amongst my friend set back in 2017, 2018, we were obsessed. It was a live trivia game where you could sit there with your phone and see this very handsome man ask questions and you’d try to win and beat your friends and maybe even make some money. Then it kind of unraveled. Scott left in 2019, the app died in 2020. But now he is back as the co-founder and CMO of a game called Savvy. And apparently Scott, I’m no longer going to be an H-cutie, I’m going to be a Savant. Welcome to the show.

Scott Rogowsky: 0:34 A Savant, yes. That’s what we’re going with now. Savant, Savirgin if you’re a first-time player, Saveteran for those who’ve played before, but we’re coming up with names.

Jason Calacanis: 0:44 So, I think it’s a little trip down memory lane because lightning in a bottle is so rare. You were the host, but were you also the founder or were you a hired gun?

Scott Rogowsky: 0:54 I was a hired gun, Jason.

Jason Calacanis: 0:56 Okay. So you’re a hired gun but you’re the face of it. It becomes a huge hit. That becomes a little tension and some tension in running a startup. You had a contract and what was it like on the way up and just how big did it get?

Scott Rogowsky: 1:21 So the whole quick backstory me is I’d been doing comedy since 2005. Doing stand-up, hosting my own talk shows in New York City. I was doing this show called Running Late with Scott Rogowsky, this kind of live talk show I’d started. And I was pretty much hitting a ceiling in New York around 2017. I decided that summer, I’m moving out of New York. I’m from New York, I said I’m moving to LA to do this in LA. Hollywood, baby, let’s go. As I was closing up my apartment and packing out, I get a call from my friend who goes, ‘Hey, do you want to audition for this game show on the phone thing I’m doing with the guys who started Vine?’ And I was like, ‘What the hell is this?’ I mean, game shows on your phone? I had such a low opinion of social media at that point. I didn’t even have an Instagram at that point, didn’t have Snapchat. And I thought, great, I’ll get a game show on the phone and then I’ll be doing gas station TV after this. But I went in for the audition. I always take the meeting, always take the audition. And I got this gig and I stayed in New York and it went from, I mean, from nothing, from 50 people in that first show to a million people in a matter of months on New Year’s Eve.

Alex Wilhelm: 2:24 Why did it catch fire in your opinion when you look back on it? What was the magic?

Scott Rogowsky: 2:29 Well, I mean, there was definitely a first-mover advantage, right? Because it was the first live stream produced show, really, interactive game show of its time where you could tune in, appointment viewing, play this game for free and win money for free and have a good time doing it. You have an entertaining host, it was an entertaining game. Trivia is one of the oldest entertainment formats out there, going back to just radio trivia shows, quiz shows. So you have an old tried-and-true format that works and was updated to the phone, to the mobile generation, and that ability to be anywhere in the world. People were playing from basketball games, from weddings, all over the place.

Jason Calacanis: 3:24 And you were doing this running late live talk show. This was a send-up to Carson, to Letterman. What were your inspirations for that?

Scott Rogowsky: 3:57 I’ve always wanted to host a talk show, but back in 2011, when I was a 26-year-old sort of struggling, underemployed comedian, I was applying to be a writer on talk shows, applying to be a producer, a segment producer, audience coordinator. I would do anything — I wanted to just be in that ecosystem, and I was getting rejected left and right. And I said, ‘You know what? Screw it. If no one’s going to give me the job, I’m going to make it myself.’ And I started Running Late. I started my own talk show. I found some great producers. My dad was my sidekick. I asked a couple other comedians, ‘Do you want to be a sidekick on my talk show?’ Nobody was interested, but my dad, God bless him, he felt obligated to do it, and he was the best sidekick I could have asked for.

Jason Calacanis: 5:11 And you did hundreds of episodes of this?

Scott Rogowsky: 5:13 About a hundred episodes. Had about 400 guests over the years from 2011 to 2019. I mean, Paul Rudd, John Oliver, Regis Philbin, Jerry Springer, John Hamm, all sorts of people.

Trevor Bennett: 5:36 Now, am I remembering correctly that there was some talent dispute with Trivia HQ? And how much were they paying you?

Scott Rogowsky: 5:43 There was definitely some tension that started to occur pretty early on. They hired me because they liked what I did in the audition. They thought I could handle a live show, being extemporaneous, and all those years of hosting Running Late directly prepared me. But lo and behold, our CEO, our founder, the guys running the company, they didn’t have any experience in the media landscape, in the entertainment world.

Jason Calacanis: 6:12 They built Vine but not that — they didn’t know how to manage talent maybe.

Scott Rogowsky: 7:07 The initial deal, it was something like — I was like six-week contracts and they kept getting re-upped. And yeah, it broke down about a hundred bucks a show if you broke it down.

Alex Wilhelm: 7:18 Wow. They never offered you to be a co-founder?

Scott Rogowsky: 7:21 No, no, no.

Trevor Bennett: 7:24 This is so dumb. You were the face of the brand and you — people loved you.

Scott Rogowsky: 8:51 It was .25.

Jason Calacanis: 8:53 A quarter point? 1/400th of the company? So dumb.

Scott Rogowsky: 15:17 I did try a different interactive company that I was trying to do live auctions, which, interestingly, another company called Whatnot sort of ran with that and has done very well. But now, last year, I met a couple of guys on Twitter. Two young guys from Europe just DM’d me out of the blue.

Scott Rogowsky: 15:47 They pitched me an idea. They said, ‘We want to do a live interactive mobile game, but it’s not just you hosting, Scott. It’s you playing. The host plays against the audience.’ And this was pretty revolutionary. No other platform’s doing this.

Scott Rogowsky: 16:41 So in three days we went from about 1,200 to 2,100. And we’re doing it now every school night, Sunday to Thursday, 9:00 PM Eastern, 6:00 Pacific live on the Savvy app.

Scott Rogowsky: 16:57 Jason, you mentioned Wordle? Guess what the show is. We’re doing our version of Wordle. It’s a live interactive version of Wordle, timed rounds, me versus you. If you score more points than me, if you get the word before I do, you win.

Jason Calacanis: 17:28 I love it. You know what I love about you is you’ve remained relentlessly positive and you’ve grinded. And this is what it’s about.

Trevor Bennett: 43:58 One trend is that space can be its own economy and ecosystem. That no longer you just go to space to serve a ground-based customer, you can go to space to serve a space-based customer. And we’re maybe like a direct correlation there. Like our business model is not serving a consumer watching the F1 race. We are servicing the satellite that broadcasts the F1 race. And so we’re a space-to-space business.

Alex Wilhelm: 46:10 We don’t have Starship yet and Blue Origin is making progress with the New Glenn but it’s not going up every morning right now. So do you think that the space economy can continue to evolve without a reduction in cost per kilogram?

Trevor Bennett: 46:45 Launch costs have come way down and folks like SpaceX and hopefully Blue and others will be major drivers in continuing that trend. We have taken a major step function as an industry over the last 10 years.

Scott Rogowsky: 48:22 Trevor, before I let you go, you guys just announced a big contract with the Space Development Agency, fifty-two and a half million dollars to provide disposal services.

Trevor Bennett: 48:53 Really what our goal is is let’s go build a business. Let’s go build something of value. Venture capital is super helpful in that process because they help bridge gaps. But that’s only matched with actual customer traction.

Trevor Bennett: 50:11 This contract is structured in a way that it’s about a service. The industry was all about sell you an orbiter, and we’re selling a service. And SDA agreed. SDA said, that’s exactly right, we need to buy this as a service.

Scott Rogowsky: 51:21 Right company at the right time. Dr. Trevor Bennett, thank you so much for coming on man, appreciate you.