NYC Sends AI Packing

Summary

Paul and Rich return from a weekend retreat in upstate New York to discover the New York City subway plastered with ads for “Friend” — a $120 AI pendant that listens to everything you do and talks to you like a companion through your phone. The ads are getting defaced by New Yorkers scribbling “surveillance capitalism” and “get real friends” across them. This launches a wide-ranging conversation about why New York City specifically rejects what Silicon Valley is selling. Rich argues the city has deep cultural reasons: it’s fiercely pro-personal-space, home to traditional industries (publishing, media, banking, education) that feel threatened by AI’s promises, and its residents have an unwritten social pact about being left alone.

The conversation expands into a broader examination of the advertising economics behind AI products. With the global AI advertising market projected to grow from $20 billion to $107 billion by 2028, the hosts explore the disturbing implications: these products will eventually be free, funded by behavioral data. And unlike previous data harvesting, AI can sculpt personalized narratives with custom-generated imagery, language, and video. Paul paints a chilling scenario where a device like Friend could be used by fundamentalist religious groups to control their daughters, or by foreign governments to radicalize populations — not through crude targeted ads but through an intimate, always-listening AI companion that generates custom content designed to influence your thinking. The necklace, Rich observes, is just going to get tighter and tighter.

Highlights

”New York City doesn’t love AI”

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“New York City doesn’t love AI. Just not really. It’s one of the reasons why we keep doubling down here. The city has an identity. Sometimes it’ll just be sports teams but you can get a Wall Street guy and a Karsi guy and get them to fight about the Mets.” — Paul Ford, 7:50

”You can’t walk up to anyone on the subway and say ‘Will you be my friend?’”

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“Here’s what you can’t do on the subway. Let’s say you’re a tourist. You can’t walk up to anyone and say, ‘Will you be my friend?’ It’s bad. It’s just not — you can do that in other places.” — Paul Ford, 10:30

”The necklace is just going to get tighter and tighter”

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“User beware. You’re not a buyer. You don’t think you’re a buyer. You’re a user. But user beware because we’ve seen what happens with free data. And now this thing’s around your neck and the necklace is just going to get tighter and tighter.” — Rich Zotti, 23:40

”I don’t want Peter Thiel talking about the Antichrist”

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“We don’t want anything to do with that culturally. I don’t want Peter Thiel talking about the Antichrist while he just sweats that sort of weird gossamer sweat that he has. If I had that kind of money, I would never be slick. I’d be matte.” — Paul Ford, 18:40

”Friend is a nice Silicon Valley concept until fundamentalists use it to control their daughters”

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“Friend is like a nice Silicon Valley concept until fundamentalist religious people use it to control their daughters and now we’re really upset about it. All this stuff is coming for us.” — Paul Ford, 21:40

Key Points

• Weekend in the Woods (0:00) - Paul and Rich went upstate and “renewed their vows as businessmen”
• Friend Pendant (1:30) - A $120 AI pendant at friend.com that listens to everything and talks to you through your phone
• Subway Ad Defacement (6:30) - New Yorkers scribbling “surveillance capitalism” and “get real friends” across Friend ads
• $1M on Subway Ads (6:00) - Friend spent a million dollars plastering New York City subway with ads
• NYC Anti-AI Culture (7:50) - New York City has a fundamental cultural resistance to Silicon Valley AI products
• Personal Space Pact (8:30) - The city has an unwritten rule that you’ll be left alone in your own space
• Tom Hanks Gets Devil Horns (7:00) - Within 20 minutes of any subway ad, New Yorkers will deface it
• Failed AI Hardware (2:40) - Previous attempts include Rabbit, AIBO robot dog, and Johnny Ive/Sam Altman’s secret project
• Traditional Industries (9:30) - NYC houses publishing, media, banking, education, and government — all wary of AI replacement promises
• MTA Could Save Millions (10:50) - The MTA could save tens of millions using AI for coding, but organizational resistance makes it nearly impossible
• $47B AI Ad Spend (12:30) - Global AI advertising market projected at $47 billion this year, heading to $107 billion by 2028
• Lock-In Strategy (13:20) - If I can get you in, you ain’t coming out — retention value of AI users is massive
• Google AI Shopping (14:00) - Google’s AI search mode is already incredibly consumer-ready for commerce
• Free AI Future (15:00) - AI platforms will all eventually become free, funded by behavioral data monetization
• AI as Radicalization Tool (21:00) - AI can generate custom narratives, imagery and video to radicalize individuals
• Necklace Gets Tighter (23:40) - Free AI products come with invisible data costs that tighten like a noose

Mentions

Companies

• Friend (1:30) - AI pendant company at friend.com, $120, no subscription
• Sony (2:50) - Made AIBO robot dog 25 years ago
• Rabbit (2:30) - Failed AI hardware device from ~2 years ago
• Google (14:00) - AI search mode is ready for commerce with messenger bag shopping example
• ChatGPT/OpenAI (14:20) - Shopping experience is very buttoned up, almost Apple-style
• Perplexity (14:10) - Used as comparison for AI search/shopping
• Facebook/Instagram (20:00) - Free platforms that harvest user data
• HBO (9:40) - Referenced as being around the corner from their office
• MTA (10:50) - New York transit authority that could save tens of millions with AI
• Apple (17:30) - Referenced for keynotes about Apple Watch saving lives
• Aboard (24:00) - The hosts’ company that builds enterprise software with AI and humans

Products & Technologies

• Friend Pendant (1:30) - $120 AI pendant that listens to your life
• AIBO (2:50) - Sony’s robot dog from 25 years ago
• Google Glasses (8:00) - Not a great product for New York City
• Scrub Daddy (18:00) - Referenced humorously as probably having an excellent CRM

People

• Paul Ford (0:00) - Co-host
• Rich Zotti (0:02) - Co-host
• Johnny Ive (2:40) - Working on secret AI hardware project with Sam Altman
• Sam Altman (2:40) - OpenAI CEO, face will be “beamed directly into our eyeballs”
• Peter Thiel (18:40) - Silicon Valley billionaire referenced for his glossy sweat and Antichrist commentary
• Tim Cook (17:40) - Getting older and looking into the void during Apple keynotes

Surprising Quotes

“I don’t want Peter Thiel talking about the Antichrist while he just sweats that sort of weird gossamer sweat that he has. If I had that kind of money, I would never be slick. I’d be matte. Like an old Mac monitor.” — Paul Ford, 18:40

“We’ve rebuilt MedicAlert at an infrastructural level using a multi-trillion dollar industry. Good for us.” — Rich Zotti on Apple Watch, 18:00

“Most of the people in my neighborhood just freaking hate AI. Oh, is that right? Yeah. And they all use it.” — Paul Ford, 11:20

“The necklace is just going to get tighter and tighter. That’s a strap. Oh, that’s good. Until you’ve been choked.” — Rich Zotti & Paul Ford, 23:40

“We don’t want to talk to you, but we want you to visit.” — Paul Ford on New York City’s attitude, 28:00

Transcript

0:00 Hi, I’m Paul Ford. And I’m Rich Zotti. And this is the Aboard Podcast. The podcast about how AI is changing the world of software. Rich, how was your weekend? It was lovely. I was in the woods. So was I. We went up to the woods and hung out a little bit together. Yes, it was nice. I always refer to this as renewing our vows as businessmen. That’s adorable.

0:30 So when you were up in the wilds of New York State, did you see any advertising for AI products? No, but I did see Jim’s HVAC services. Lot of that. I saw a big sign that said vote Republican. And I heard coyotes at night, which those two things are related, but we won’t go into that. It’s very creepy. Let’s stop talking about talking and start talking.

1:10 So, we’re back. We just got back and you hit New York City and you start to see ads everywhere. It’s New York City. You take the subway. I do take the subway every day unless I’m biking. And there is this thing. It is a round thing and it is called Friend. If you go to friend.com — it is a pendant that you wear. It’s a digital pendant around your neck. It’s kind of gray. And it listens to everything you’re doing without you activating it. It’s just listening to you live your life.

1:50 It talks to you like a friend. It’s Bluetooth into your AirPods or whatever. It talks to you through your phone. It’s like this little AI sensor that picks up all the audio around you. And then it sort of is like, “Hey.” And you’re like, “Wow, boy, that was a hard run.” But it’s like, yeah, we were, but we’re outside and it’s cool and we’re together and I’m your friend.

2:20 People have given a go at this. There’s the Rabbit thing from like two years ago. It was too early and a sloppy mess. And then Johnny Ive and Sam Altman got together and they’re working on some secret projects. I feel though that everyone has erased AIBO from this conversation. That was that little dog from Sony about 25 years ago. It was ahead of its time. It broke all the time and people were confused by it.

3:00 Friend is $129. Everybody is sort of thoughtful and wearing a sweater and kind of hot on their video. Wait — $120 with no subscription. So it’s just a little friend that you buy. That’s cheap. Yeah. Well, they’re going to have to make money some other ways, like selling your life data.

3:30 Where are my memories stored? They are encrypted by your Friend circuit board. If it’s lost and damaged, they’re inaccessible forever. I think this is a real attempt to build a ChatGPT personal experience, like a sci-fi kind of thing. It’s very Silicon Valley. We’re going to encrypt your stuff and everything’s going to be okay.

4:00 And New York City. They went there. They really wanted to break in here. They blew a million bucks on subway ads. A million dollars on subway ads in New York City. They plastered all over. Tunnels. This little pendant and lots of little definitions of the word “friend.” And it kind of didn’t — it’s getting a lot of pushback. People are writing “surveillance capitalism, get real friends” across the ads.

4:40 You’re kind of asking for it when you do this here to be frank. I remember when movie poster ads were very popular in subways. Within 20 minutes, Tom Hanks has devil horns and a tongue sticking out of his mouth. No matter what the movie. A lot of little nipples get added. Advertiser beware if you’re going to put it on the subway.

5:20 It turns out this is hitting a particular nerve. New York City doesn’t love AI. Just not really. It’s one of the reasons why we keep doubling down here. We know the city does not love this technology. How come? It overlaps with too many things. The city has an identity. Different people share that identity in really different ways.

5:50 Sometimes it’ll just be sports teams but you can get a Wall Street guy and a Karsi guy to fight about the Mets. And it’ll be a pretty good conversation and they will kind of respect each other as New Yorkers. Everybody takes the train. Even if you’re rich, unless you are helicopter rich, you take the train because otherwise it’s just not convenient any other way.

6:20 In order to succeed and thrive here, you engage with the systems of the city. And then you have this thing and it’s a social place. Probably the most social place in America. But there’s sort of an unwritten rule that you’ll be left alone in your own space, whether you’re on the train or in your apartment. This is not a great place for Google Glasses. We don’t like those.

7:00 Everyone’s running and they want to be left alone. It’s a helpful place. It’s a neighborly place. There’s a warmth to it, but boy, when you’re doing your thing, you don’t want anyone in your business. If you faint on the train, 10 people are going to help you. But don’t make eye contact on the train.

7:30 The trickiest one in New York is when somebody’s just sobbing openly on the train. Usually I’m the cause of it. What you can do is go up and say, “You okay?” And then they’ll be like, “Yeah.” And you leave. They’ll do a sad little mini nod. That’s the deal. By the rules of the city. You can have any kind of emotional meltdown. You can even be partially naked.

8:10 So you got this little observing guy on your neck. Here’s what you can’t do on the subway. Let’s say you’re a tourist. You can’t walk up to anyone and say, “Will you be my friend?” It’s bad. It’s just not — you can do that in other places. That’s like when they try to sell you their CDs. There are certain boundaries. Don’t do that.

8:50 That’s a pact everyone has. You’re just going to leave me alone. It’s already crowded enough. Give me my two square inches. But you can be like if somebody’s wearing a band t-shirt, you can say “I saw them a couple years ago, they were great.” And they’ll go, “Yeah man, they were great.” And that’s that.

9:20 Anti-surveillance, pro-personal space. That makes a lot of sense. It’s not just that. You’ve got the publishing industry and a lot of big anchors of the media industry. The outposts are here. Television networks. We’re around the corner from HBO. People are a little touchy about the constant statement that we will be able to replace everything you do at the prompt.

9:50 A lot of traditional labor and traditional skills are in New York City. Banking, insurance, finance, very research driven. Marketing. Government and education too. These are huge industries in the city. And I can tell you for a fact the MTA could use AI in how it does its coding. How much money could they save? Probably tens of millions. But think about what it would take to make change inside that organization.

10:30 Or inside city hall. There’s a lot of resistance but also a lot of opportunity at a time of real stress. There’s a lot that this technology has to offer but also really justified pushback. Being here it’s just kind of thorny. Most of the people in my neighborhood just freaking hate AI. Is that right? Yeah. And they all use it.

11:00 Back to this ad. People are scribbling on it. And they’ll probably spend another million on something else. When you can buy friend.com, you’ve got a lot of capital. Venture capital has given you a thumbs up.

11:20 According to Google AI overview — global AI advertising market size, not ads made with AI but advertising AI products. Last year $20.44 billion. This year $47 billion. 2028 — $107 billion in advertising spend to get people to adopt AI. Multiply that friend million by a thousand. We are due for Sam Altman’s face being directly beamed into our eyeballs for the rest of our lives.

12:10 Is there a breakdown? It’s a massive amount of money. If I can get you in, you ain’t coming out. The retention value of a user of AI is absolutely massive. Tech billboards in San Francisco are confusing — the New York Times wrote about it.

12:40 That lock-in point is interesting because it’s real frothy right now and you’re starting to see the giants get their heads together. If you use Google AI — not those summaries at the top, but the AI mode — I was looking for a messenger bag. The Google one is way more consumer. It searches zillions of sites. It is right there and ready for commerce. Like, “I know you want to get to the mall right now. Let’s go.”

13:20 The ChatGPT shopping experience is very buttoned up. Almost Apple-style. Very nice. But the Google one is like, let’s go get in the van. When we talk about lock-in, that’s it. The giants are about to start making 10 cents per transaction enabled by AI because somebody wants a messenger bag.

13:50 ChatGPT sprinted ahead and dominates usage today. But I’m going to bet Google is increasingly getting more users. Do you think ultimately we’re headed to free? Yeah, I do. Because platforms get commoditized faster and faster. Even ChatGPT is going to be a free tier.

14:20 If AI service across the street is free and this one’s $12, and I can’t tell the difference, I’m going across the street. Over there on free, I have Google, which is incredibly good at marching you through a funnel towards a transaction. Affiliates, advertising — huge number of ways for Google to make money.

14:50 Here’s what’s tricky. Eventually AI search is going to be free everywhere. But free is not really free. Your data and behavioral data are invaluable to give the right answer. Friend — $130 and no monthly — there’s going to be some marketplace for your behavior behind the scenes.

15:20 Nobody can just make and sell a product unless it’s like Scrub Daddy. Everything has to be a data play. Even Scrub Daddy probably has an excellent CRM.

15:40 The argument for data in the past was: I get to know you and the ads I show you are not garbage. They’re things you care about. You seem to be into cooking so I show you cool utensils and frying pans. Now you bring AI into the picture and it’s that times a thousand. AI’s observation of your behavior is so much better than anything we’ve ever had.

16:20 It might even triangulate on health risks before you even know it. What’s so bad about that? All of that is real and will happen and they will talk about it during Apple keynotes. Remember when Apple was like, “The bear came into the house but the Apple Watch saved their lives”? Tim Cook’s getting older and looking into the void.

17:00 There will be lots of virtuous things. That’ll be a big part of the advertising and marketing. Here’s what is actually genuinely upsetting and terrifying about advertising-enabled platforms that use AI and are free. LLMs are truly able to sculpt things to your interest and generate interstitial narrative. They can fill in blanks with pretty good material.

17:40 You’re not just showing somebody a list of relevant pages. You’re able to create a whole narrative and story for them. With imagery and language and video. Custom created. A little device around your neck that tells you what to do next or how it feels about what you’re doing.

18:10 Friend is like a nice Silicon Valley concept until fundamentalist religious people use it to control their daughters and now we’re really upset about it. Except the people who really want it think it’s a great way to invest in the faith they were raised in. All this stuff is coming for us. The ability — it’s been attempted. It came for us through cruder ways for the last 20 years and we’re very vulnerable.

18:50 It can be turned into very subtle ways to encourage your thinking and show you links and things that are relevant to you. Given what we know about social media and how it radicalizes people, it’s very easy to imagine an AI coached and trained to radicalize them — in the direction of purchasing a Samsung fridge or committing a crime.

19:20 Or in the direction of intaking false information and false narratives that create division. I think what New York City sees when it sees Friend, it sees a bad ending. Friend buys the million dollars — it’s Silicon Valley utopianism saying, “No, come on, this is actually kind of cool.”

19:50 And I think there’s two elements. One is we were never going to buy it. But also Silicon Valley’s absolutely gone banana cakes. We don’t want anything to do with that culturally. I don’t want Peter Thiel talking about the Antichrist while he just sweats that sort of weird gossamer sweat that he has. If I had that kind of money, I would never be slick. I’d be matte. Like an old Mac monitor. God, I hate everything being shiny, including our venture capital billionaire Antichrist-believer blood suckers. Well, there goes our chances of raising money.

20:30 What should people do here? We’ve been gathering data in exchange for free services for a very long time. Facebook, Google, Instagram — all free. I’ve never given Facebook money. Never given Instagram money. And what we found happens is this. The intentions may be benevolent — make the world a more connected place. But malevolent forces, whether driven by money or power, abuse these mechanisms.

21:10 We’ve seen it to the point where societies have melted down. They don’t even have to be malevolent. They can just be ideologically indifferent. The amount of positive rulemaking you need to make humans line up is essentially anti-growth. Nobody has corrected, except for LinkedIn because it’s terrible.

21:40 When I look at Friend — cool, another spigot, another path to really understanding where you’re at. Looking back on 2016 elections where they were making custom ads — if you’re a veteran with a gun license. Well, with AI you don’t even need a person on the other side to make the custom ad. It’s just going to make it.

22:10 Not only that, you’re going to opt into it because the upside is so great for you. User beware. You’re not a buyer. You don’t think you’re a buyer. You’re a user. But user beware because we’ve seen what happens with free data. And now this thing’s around your neck and the necklace is just going to get tighter and tighter. That’s a strap. Oh, that’s good. Until you’ve been choked.

22:50 You know what we don’t do here at Aboard? A lot of things. We don’t sell junk jewelry that is selling your data. We have an AI startup. But people — I don’t know anything about you. I have no idea where you land politically. We’ve worked together 10 years. That’s really sad.

23:20 But we sell software. We sell software built with AI, which puts it into your hands much cheaper, much faster. But what if AI can’t build all my software? People. People who need people are the luckiest people in the world. And that’s you as an enterprise software customer with Aboard.

23:50 To be clear, we build software for companies. It’s complicated software. Complicated software is beyond AI’s reach and you need people to get it over the line. But first, you can take a first cut by going to aboard.com and trying Aboard. It’ll give you a taste of what we’re capable of pulling off.

24:20 Give us five stars. Thumbs up. Six stars if you got them. Like and subscribe. Go make a friend. A real friend in New York City. Come on by. We like you. We don’t want to talk to you, but we want you to visit. Have a good week. Bye.